#218 Seth Godin – Episode Notes
Seth Godin Is the bestselling author of Linchpin, Tribes, Sean’s favorite marketing book of all time, This is Marketing and his latest work The Practice: Shipping Creative Work. On this episode Seth uncovers what will inspire artists, writers, and entrepreneurs to stretch and commit to putting their best work out into the world. Creative work doesn’t come with a guarantee. But there is a pattern to who succeeds and who doesn’t. And engaging in the consistent practice of its pursuit is the best way forward. This episode will will help you get unstuck and find the courage to make and share creative work. Godin insists that writer’s block is a myth, that consistency is far more important than authenticity, and that experiencing the imposter syndrome is a sign that you’re a well-adjusted human. Most of all, he shows you what it takes to turn your passion from a private distraction to a productive contribution, the one you’ve been seeking to share all along.
Key Takeaways
Seth Godin is an author, entrepreneur, and teacher. His strength throughout all his areas of work is creativity, which he believes is an active choice for everyone.
“We’re not discussing whether it is possible for you to be creative, we’re discussing is it possible to be creative more often”
Throughout digital media and constant connection, manipulation within our societies is more rapid and relevant than ever before. Seth believes that in order to avoid manipulation, we have to ask why we are doing something and who are we doing it for.
“We’ve been indoctrinated into lots of ways of thinking and if those things aren’t helping us get what we want, then we’ve been manipulated because someone else got us to believe or act a certain way because it was good for them”
Seth believes that reassurance is futile, and that we need trust ourselves and our work.
“Once we can get an understanding that there’s nothing to hold on to, it gets way easier to do our work”
4:26 People Who Have Impacted Seth
Sean starts the conversation asking Seth if there is anyone he hasn’t met that has had an impact on his life.
Seth explains that among the countless books he has read and the people who have paved the way before him are all people who have impacted his life immensely.
“Most of the people who have an impact on my life I’ve never met”
5:37 Creativity is a Choice
People think they are born creative or they are not, which Seth disagrees with.
“I don’t think creativity is a talent, I think it’s a skill”
Seth says that every single person has been creative at least once.
“We’re not discussing whether it is possible for you to be creative, we’re discussing is it possible to be creative more often”
Seth alludes to his first day at his first job out of business school, saying that this day was when he learned what creativity can mean professionally.
8:16 Next Steps After Understanding Your Impact
It’s simple: show up and ship the work.
“Until you engage with the market, you have no idea if you’re making a contribution”
8:58 Trusting Your Work
Trust yourself. Seth says that we have two things inside our head: the verbal critic and the nonverbal creative.
“Only by trusting ourselves to make things better do we have a chance to let creativity out”
Seth describes the balancing act that it takes to trust yourself and your work.
“The balancing act is: don’t ship junk, don’t be selfish. But at the same time, don’t hold back for perfect because perfect isn’t the point, the point is to make a contribution”
10:16 Seth’s Balance of the Creative and the Critic
During Seth’s time as a book packager, he believes he had too much of his nonverbal creative side while also lacking empathy for the publisher.
“Only when I added the empathy and allowed their desires and their voice into my head as well, was I able to find a balance between the two”
11:05 Seth’s Most Expensive Business Decision
The most expensive decision Seth ever made was in 1993 when he was running one of the first internet companies in the world and he didn’t believe the World Wide Web would be successful.
“What I missed was, I knew what I wanted in an online service but I wasn’t yet aware enough to know what other people might want”
11:58 Game Selection
Sean asks Seth, “Where can your talents match up with what interests you?”
Seth replies that he doesn’t believe talent enters this at all. The hardest part to find is a sustainable area where you can consistently add value and get paid for it.
“Where we fall down, is believing that being in the industry in itself is an act of creativity, it’s not”
In Seth’s career, he felt most creative and the most “thrills per minute” in the year 1983 during his time as a Product Manager of science fiction adventure games for Spinnaker Software.
Seth describes that time as being transformational for his life.
“The two things that transformed me other than my parents were the years teaching canoeing in Canada and that two month sprint”
17:56 Taking Responsibility for Your Work
Seth wiseley points out, “If you’re not going to be responsible for it, who will be?”
He believes that if you’re not willing to be responsible for your work then you are frustrated because you feel overlooked and disrespected.
“It’s a double edged sword if you will, that on one side we don’t want to be responsible because then we’re on the hook but on the other side being on the hook is the only place to be”
19:00 Hospitality of Discomfort
Hospitality is pampering in the typical sense, but alternatively there is a hospitality of discomfort.
“Being able to create an environment where people are able to dance with fear”
Seth describes hospitality of discomfort as the way it feels before you learn something, such as signing up to train for a marathon.
“We’ve probably done too much pampering in our culture and not enough appropriate discomfort”
20:00 “So Far” and “Not Yet”
“So far” means “I have not accomplished something so far”
“Not yet” means “No one has said yes, yet”
“Call it optimism if you want but I think it’s a form of realism, acknowledging that time marches on and as it marches on we have a choice about how to spend it”
21:22 Different Learning Paths in Seth’s Projects
Seth says that sometimes he learns through the course of writing a book, such as with his book Linchpin. Other times, he writes a book because he needs to read the concepts again, like with his book The Practice.
“I wrote this book to remind me of how to do better work”
22:16 Rediscovering vs. Re-uncovering
Seth doesn’t feel like he is close to being done with the work that he wants to do.
“What I’m looking to discover are more effective ways to help people do the things they’ve wanted to do all along”
Seth talks about how social media and our political climate manipulates people into short-term decisions.
“I want to figure out how to help people see that they can do long term things so they can get what they want”
23:24 Design Thinking Turned Intentional Action
Seth doesn’t like the name of the phrase “Design Thinking”, he believes it’s about intentional action.
“In order to figure out what we want to do we have to ask two questions, who’s it for and what’s it for?”
24:48 Avoiding Manipulation
Seth prefaces his advice to avoiding manipulation by explaining how we have all been indoctrinated in our culture.
“We’ve been indoctrinated into lots of ways of thinking and if those things aren’t helping us get what we want, then we’ve been manipulated because someone else got us to believe or act a certain way because it was good for them”
Seth says that we can put principles in place to avoid this manipulation, such as not using social media.
“Being able to build very clear boundaries about what you’re going to believe and what you’re going to tell somebody else based on what you learned are super important”
26:27 Decisions that Sustained Seth’s Career
One of the decisions Seth credits to sustaining his career is blogging everyday.
“The reason it’s great even if no one reads your blog, is because it forces you to say something in writing, in public, everyday”
He describes this action as a commitment to a practice of clarity of thinking.
The second decision is to get better clients.
“Better clients let you do better work”
28:03 Feedback Loops
Seth describes the feedback loops you want to listen to and the ones you want to ignore.
“A key part of engaging with feedback loops is being really clear about who gets to talk to you and who you are going to listen to because getting hung up on all feedback being the same is a real problem”
29:07 Good Taste
Seth defines good taste as knowing what your customers want just before they do.
“Good taste requires us, first of all, to listen a lot”
Along with listening, you have to make assertions about what people are interested in.
“Describe what’s out there and what you think will happen next. Say it out loud, and based on what you say out loud see if you’re right”
31:36 Reassurance is Futile to Seth
Among things Seth doesn’t believe in, writer’s block and the importance of reassurance make the list.
“Reassurance in the moment, like a piece of chocolate, feels like it’s helping but the thing is it wears out really, really fast”
Instead of seeking out reassurance, Seth recommends figuring out how to extend yourself without reassurance.
“Once we can get an understanding that there’s nothing to hold on to, it gets way easier to do our work”
33:17 Seth’s Work Underneath the Water
One way that Seth develops his work is through challenging himself to explain something that he doesn’t understand, and if he can’t explain it he has to dig in more to understand why.
“There’s lots of things around us that we would never expect to be the way that they are”
Seth uses an example of Florida’s geography and development history.
“Everywhere I look I’m just confused and I’m trying to get unconfused on a regular basis”
36:45 Giving Yourself Space
Seth says, “Giving yourself space doesn’t get you clients, learning how to sell gets you clients”
“Having the empathy to show up and see someone else’s problem and offer to solve it for money, that is essential”
After showing up with empathy is when you have to give yourself space Seth says, so that you can do better work.
37:30 Seth’s Creative Idols
Seth names Ideo, Spike Lee’s movies, Neil Gaiman, and the late Sir Ken Robinson as people that he has been in awe of their creativity.
39:34 What Seth Hopes Readers Walk Away With
Seth wants his readers of The Practice to share the book with three other people and hold each other accountable.
39:58 Anyone dead or alive, who would Seth spend an evening talking with?
Seth’s answer: his mom.
Seth’s Resources
Seth’s New Book – The Practice
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